How can we agree with such vitriol whether it comes from Ritter or anyone. This is a terrible consequence of the fog of war. This is about being human on this planet right now. We are all targets of this violence. Two of my grown grandchildren were born in the Ukraine. Recognize our own vulnerability in the fog of war.
I agree, and I said as much in the live chat. The people of the Ukraine who do not follow Bandera are our brothers and sisters, which we need to keep in mind for when this is over and we will find ourselves living side by side again.
What could the people of Ukraine have done? PLEASE!
Well, what people of Donbass did when the Nazis were taking over.
The Ukrainians were quiet when Crimea was cut off water and electricity, they were quiet when Donbass has been bombed. Actually, no, they were jumping with the pots on their heads and chanting " Moskolyaku na gilyaku" or "those who do not jump, are moskals".
Thank you, Scott, for your factual information. They could have done A LOT, but chose not to.
It should be remembered that when Adolf Hitler came to power in Germany in 1932/1933, the overwhelming majority of Germans kept quiet. They had no problems with the violence being perpetrated against Jews and other marginalized groups. In fact, William L. Shirer wrote about that with the "Rise and Fall of the Third Reich," William Sheridan Allen wrote about everyday Germans in "The Nazi Seizure of Power," and Albert Speer in "Inside the Third Reich." People who are considered "heros" in Germany, Erwin Rommel and Claus von Stauffenberg, both had no problems going to war and keeping quiet about the Holocaust until Nazi Germany started losing. Rommel did nothing at the time when he could have prevented the Waffen-SS and Eizsatgruppen were murdering Jews and other "undesirables" as defined by the Nazi Regime.
The Western Mainstream Media had numerous written articles and video documentaries about how the Nazis of Ukraine have been gaining in power prior to the Russian military invasion of Ukraine. How many "Ethnic Ukrainians" celebrate the glorification of the Holocaust by their demand to recognize Stephan Bandera as a great leader, whose followers aided and abetted in murdering hundreds of thousands of Jews, Poles, and others? How about the pogroms that have been happening in Ukraine since February 2014 by Ethnic Ukrainians against the Roma and others? How about the fact that the majority of Ethnic Ukrainians were happy to have the Russian language declared illegal as one of the first acts of the post February 2014 coup initiated by the United States and NATO?
The Ukrainian people must acknowledge that the Government of Ukraine with strong Nazi elements had been posed to commit genocide against all non-ethnic Ukrainians right when Russia intervened militarily in February 2022. The silence of the Ukrainian people speaks volumes as does the actions of the West to the people of the Global South.
FBI deliberately lied to social media companies about Hunter Biden laptop (actually three water-damaged laptops - not just one) – FBI knew the truth exactly – laptops were in their possession for one (1) year
I love the fact that Scott Ritter has stood up for the truth many times, but like you I felt uncomfortable that he made such a sweeping statement.
I have heard Scott say previously that he is aware that generalisations are harmful (though not in those exact words). I do not agree with his generalisation of Ukrainians, I also do not agree with his generalisations of Americans either, where he has expressed himself in quite negative terms about his own nation too (his right btw, and I'd be a hypocrite if I didn't mention I've done the same too).
I, You, and (I'm sure) Scott, knows that generalisations and sweeping statements, are the language of frustration and passion, but I do not beleive he really beleives those generalisations himself, any more than I meant mine (although in the heat of an empassioned speech I do actually mean it for the duration of the anger I feel, right up to where my generalisation embarrasses me, and I am pulled from my anger back into critical thinking).
From my own observations I would say that Scott is a genuinely decent man who has been deeply and personally hurt by the very nation (World even) he sought to protect and defend (and still tries), and that he, like me, is prone to generalising when amped-up on his emotions, and while still in that state, he, like many of us, will defend that position not out of logic, but out of the anger and pain felt about those subjects which remind him vicerally of the injustices, that he has suffered, but also as importantly, what he has also witnessed others suffering.
I don't say any of this to belittle him, or to praise generalisations. Scott, You, I, and many, many others recognise generalisations for what they are - a soul in pain crying out for justice, that has spent too long not getting the justice needed. It's frustration made manifest in an illogical, but also completely logical way.
I obviously cannot speak for Scott himself, maybe my observations are flawed, maybe I am projecting my own flaws, but truthfully, I did it myself today in a Cafe in the UK, and I know I didn't mean to generalise, but damn it! It came out anyway - fortunately there were enough people in that place who recognised I wasn't really hating on everyone.
Personally I think it is a side effect of those who are particularly sensitive to injustice, who have great empathy for others, but in thier own pain, and empassioned speech, occasionally loose a bit of self-control - and Scott is certainly a man who has self-control - more than me by mountains.
I would also mention the Elon 'episode' in ATI#26 that saw Scott lose it a bit about free-speech. Clearly Jeff and Scott have words together 'off-set' about their behavior 'on-set', and this shows in the dynamics between them. Scott, you were rude to Jeff - but I noted that even whilst still quite amped-up you made the effort to appologise to Jeff. That tells me a great deal about both of you, and I love both of you for being the true and best kind of warriors you are - you literally end up displaying the evolution of your personal relationship to each other, and in such a real, genuine, human way, that flaws and all, it is still a beautiful thing to behold.
No one in their right mind can accuse Scott, Jeff, or Tory of running a prefabricated, scripted show - it is a show of truth in every sense, with real people, living real lives, and the attempts to inject a bit of humour by Jeff, as ill-timed as they are at times, are oddly warming to my heart, and I swear, I love them all that much more because of their genuine humanity - nothing hidden behind makeup, no fake personas.
Because of the truth and genuineness I see in Scott, Jeff, Tory and contributors like You Kevin, you are all rapidly becoming my number 1 goto place for honesty, and I appreciate the hell out of it.
So in conclusion - Thank you Scott, thank you Jeff, thank you Tory, and thank you for this article Kevin - what you said, needed to be said, though I am sure all those involved are fully aware of their faux pas, and no doubt doing what they normally do - learning from them, and improving. Not one of you strikes me as a Narcissist, but that doesn't mean there's no danger from it - empathy and passion are great in the right mix, but also prone to leading us into unfavourable personality traits.
P.s. if you DO find yourself being a bit narcissistic - I accept full responsibility - after all, if I didn't keep praising your efforts .... Just blame Pete (Everyone else does ... Doh! ... and I was doing so well without generalising!)
When did Nazis and Banderites stopped being the scum that they really are? Ukrainians mostly downplay and whitewash that if not openly support this.
I agree with Kevin on the following:
What about the people in kupyansk, kherson, Izyum who believed that Russia is here forever, got their passports but were not able to leave. Are those bad or good ukrainians.
What about russian liberators letting out the sickest vilest Azov nazis and giving back the regions mentioned above back to them. Yes, I believe Russia will take it back but not every average pro-russian ukrainian sees it like me.
At the end I would still prefer to have at least some separation between the state and its people.
I agree with Scott and STRONGLY disagree with you, Kevin! It may sound harsh but it IS true.
I went through the terrible years in the Soviet Union in early to mid-70 and FAUGHT with the KGB suppression. Some of my close friends were jailed then. Nobody now probably even remembers the trial "of the pilots" - i.e. a failed attempt of a group of a few men to highjack a plane and fly away that KNEW they've been followed and will be arrested but they proceeded anyway to MAKE A POINT! That was the "beginning of the end" because it brought the attention of the west to the situation there even though it took YEARS until Gorbachev started the internal change.
I have NEVER HEARD of ANY protests in Ukraine - EXCEPT the good people of Donbass! Those who WERE good people, fought WITH them. Others went on demonstrations in support of Bandera murderers!!!
BTW, even in the worst Stalin years before and during WWII there have never been demonstrations in the Soviet Union in SUPPORT of those repressions. Yes, people were afraid, and yes, there were some that loved to report their neighbors to secret service, but they did that secretly - never in the open! Because they knew that they were being despised by everyone! In Ukraine they did and still do that in the open and PROUDLY! That is what Scott was talking about. "People DESERVE the government they CHOOSE" - and Ukrainians supported such gov-ts consistently since the beginning of this century. SHAME ON THEM!
If you talk to the people in Donbass, who have endured the Ukrainian bombarding for all these years, many of them say they feel pity for the Ukrainians. They do not hate them. They think of them as brothers and sisters.
Dear Kevin, I love reading your articles and I generally agree with you, but in this case I think you might be idealizing western Ukraine - the situation is much more complex, unfortunately, people of western Ukraine are not as passive as they might seem. Of course I am not saying that all Ukrainians are neonazis (there are many people of Ukrainian nationality who do NOT support nazism and fascism), but the fact is that in the western Ukraine there is a severe problem with "grassroot" neonazism, meaning there are admirerers of Bandera and OUN-B among ordinary people, and this has been present long before the 2014 coup d'etat. (Shortly, this is the consequence of collaboration with nazi Germany during the WWII; in Ukraine, German occupation was perceived as liberation from the Soviets; SS-Galizien and other units were made of Ukrainian soldiers from OUN-B; those Ukrainian units were responsible for massacres in Babi Yar and Volhynia; they were even more cruel than German units.) So, in 2014, the ultranationalist government only “opened the gate” and allowed everyone to show their Nazi sympathies openly. See the BBC documentary What Our Fathers Did: A Nazi Legacy (2015), the scene at a Nazi commemoration (at the end of film): https://rumble.com/v16sqr7-what-our-fathers-did-a-nazi-legacy-documentary.html
These children are young grownups now and they take active part in propaganda war, eg. presenting lies about situation in Ukraine, they are representatives of NGOs financed by the West... Of course, they have been manipulated and brainwashed, but the fact is - they are very active in this war...
Shortly, the situation is very complex. As Karl Jaspers wrote in The Question of German Guilt (Die Schuldfrage, 1946), there are several types of responsibility.
I need to emphasize that I am not trying to smear citizen of Ukraine - I am just trying to see what the reality is. I am aware that many Ukrainians who do not agree with ultranacionalists keep being silent in order to survive. But we also need to be aware that many Ukrainians who, after the Donbass war began, risked their lives in order to fight neo-nazism. In this documentary, there is a personal story of a man who was tortured by the SBU for sending the Donbass militias warnings about possible air raids (bombing in Donbass): https://rumble.com/v10dng7-tortured-by-sbu-questioned-by-jit.html (I highly recommend all the documentaries on the BonanzaMedia channel, they are made with high professional standards, and present the fact omitted in the mainstream media).
I am fully aware that, watching from the outside, we cannot even vaguely imagine the horrors people of Ukraine must go through... My heart is with all the people who suffer in this war. The main war criminals in my opinion are the Western countries which, by inciting this conflict, made this war and now, by blocking the peace negotiations, prolongue the war - completely unnecessarily. The biggest horror is that they really intend to fight "to the last Ukrainian"...
And also, we must not forget: in the West (EU, US, Canada, etc.), we also need to take our responsibility and somehow stop our governments from exporting violence!
Of course there are enough good Ukrainians, but in every 'democratic' country you will be countered by the argument that you democratically voted for your government. So you have to bear the consequences and stop whining about it or oust your government. Like NAZI Germany the Germans are still haunted by their past decisions and repulsive behavior. The good ones have to suffer too.
How can we agree with such vitriol whether it comes from Ritter or anyone. This is a terrible consequence of the fog of war. This is about being human on this planet right now. We are all targets of this violence. Two of my grown grandchildren were born in the Ukraine. Recognize our own vulnerability in the fog of war.
I agree, and I said as much in the live chat. The people of the Ukraine who do not follow Bandera are our brothers and sisters, which we need to keep in mind for when this is over and we will find ourselves living side by side again.
Agree with you, Kevin. But I don't take what Scott said on this point too much to heart.
Looking forward to hearing your discussion with Ritter
What could the people of Ukraine have done? PLEASE!
Well, what people of Donbass did when the Nazis were taking over.
The Ukrainians were quiet when Crimea was cut off water and electricity, they were quiet when Donbass has been bombed. Actually, no, they were jumping with the pots on their heads and chanting " Moskolyaku na gilyaku" or "those who do not jump, are moskals".
Thank you, Scott, for your factual information. They could have done A LOT, but chose not to.
It should be remembered that when Adolf Hitler came to power in Germany in 1932/1933, the overwhelming majority of Germans kept quiet. They had no problems with the violence being perpetrated against Jews and other marginalized groups. In fact, William L. Shirer wrote about that with the "Rise and Fall of the Third Reich," William Sheridan Allen wrote about everyday Germans in "The Nazi Seizure of Power," and Albert Speer in "Inside the Third Reich." People who are considered "heros" in Germany, Erwin Rommel and Claus von Stauffenberg, both had no problems going to war and keeping quiet about the Holocaust until Nazi Germany started losing. Rommel did nothing at the time when he could have prevented the Waffen-SS and Eizsatgruppen were murdering Jews and other "undesirables" as defined by the Nazi Regime.
The Western Mainstream Media had numerous written articles and video documentaries about how the Nazis of Ukraine have been gaining in power prior to the Russian military invasion of Ukraine. How many "Ethnic Ukrainians" celebrate the glorification of the Holocaust by their demand to recognize Stephan Bandera as a great leader, whose followers aided and abetted in murdering hundreds of thousands of Jews, Poles, and others? How about the pogroms that have been happening in Ukraine since February 2014 by Ethnic Ukrainians against the Roma and others? How about the fact that the majority of Ethnic Ukrainians were happy to have the Russian language declared illegal as one of the first acts of the post February 2014 coup initiated by the United States and NATO?
The Ukrainian people must acknowledge that the Government of Ukraine with strong Nazi elements had been posed to commit genocide against all non-ethnic Ukrainians right when Russia intervened militarily in February 2022. The silence of the Ukrainian people speaks volumes as does the actions of the West to the people of the Global South.
Thank you !!
FBI deliberately lied to social media companies about Hunter Biden laptop (actually three water-damaged laptops - not just one) – FBI knew the truth exactly – laptops were in their possession for one (1) year
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIkwgDOad-A
https://rokfin.com/stream/26440
I love the fact that Scott Ritter has stood up for the truth many times, but like you I felt uncomfortable that he made such a sweeping statement.
I have heard Scott say previously that he is aware that generalisations are harmful (though not in those exact words). I do not agree with his generalisation of Ukrainians, I also do not agree with his generalisations of Americans either, where he has expressed himself in quite negative terms about his own nation too (his right btw, and I'd be a hypocrite if I didn't mention I've done the same too).
I, You, and (I'm sure) Scott, knows that generalisations and sweeping statements, are the language of frustration and passion, but I do not beleive he really beleives those generalisations himself, any more than I meant mine (although in the heat of an empassioned speech I do actually mean it for the duration of the anger I feel, right up to where my generalisation embarrasses me, and I am pulled from my anger back into critical thinking).
From my own observations I would say that Scott is a genuinely decent man who has been deeply and personally hurt by the very nation (World even) he sought to protect and defend (and still tries), and that he, like me, is prone to generalising when amped-up on his emotions, and while still in that state, he, like many of us, will defend that position not out of logic, but out of the anger and pain felt about those subjects which remind him vicerally of the injustices, that he has suffered, but also as importantly, what he has also witnessed others suffering.
I don't say any of this to belittle him, or to praise generalisations. Scott, You, I, and many, many others recognise generalisations for what they are - a soul in pain crying out for justice, that has spent too long not getting the justice needed. It's frustration made manifest in an illogical, but also completely logical way.
I obviously cannot speak for Scott himself, maybe my observations are flawed, maybe I am projecting my own flaws, but truthfully, I did it myself today in a Cafe in the UK, and I know I didn't mean to generalise, but damn it! It came out anyway - fortunately there were enough people in that place who recognised I wasn't really hating on everyone.
Personally I think it is a side effect of those who are particularly sensitive to injustice, who have great empathy for others, but in thier own pain, and empassioned speech, occasionally loose a bit of self-control - and Scott is certainly a man who has self-control - more than me by mountains.
I would also mention the Elon 'episode' in ATI#26 that saw Scott lose it a bit about free-speech. Clearly Jeff and Scott have words together 'off-set' about their behavior 'on-set', and this shows in the dynamics between them. Scott, you were rude to Jeff - but I noted that even whilst still quite amped-up you made the effort to appologise to Jeff. That tells me a great deal about both of you, and I love both of you for being the true and best kind of warriors you are - you literally end up displaying the evolution of your personal relationship to each other, and in such a real, genuine, human way, that flaws and all, it is still a beautiful thing to behold.
No one in their right mind can accuse Scott, Jeff, or Tory of running a prefabricated, scripted show - it is a show of truth in every sense, with real people, living real lives, and the attempts to inject a bit of humour by Jeff, as ill-timed as they are at times, are oddly warming to my heart, and I swear, I love them all that much more because of their genuine humanity - nothing hidden behind makeup, no fake personas.
Because of the truth and genuineness I see in Scott, Jeff, Tory and contributors like You Kevin, you are all rapidly becoming my number 1 goto place for honesty, and I appreciate the hell out of it.
So in conclusion - Thank you Scott, thank you Jeff, thank you Tory, and thank you for this article Kevin - what you said, needed to be said, though I am sure all those involved are fully aware of their faux pas, and no doubt doing what they normally do - learning from them, and improving. Not one of you strikes me as a Narcissist, but that doesn't mean there's no danger from it - empathy and passion are great in the right mix, but also prone to leading us into unfavourable personality traits.
P.s. if you DO find yourself being a bit narcissistic - I accept full responsibility - after all, if I didn't keep praising your efforts .... Just blame Pete (Everyone else does ... Doh! ... and I was doing so well without generalising!)
I agree with Scott on the following:
When did Nazis and Banderites stopped being the scum that they really are? Ukrainians mostly downplay and whitewash that if not openly support this.
I agree with Kevin on the following:
What about the people in kupyansk, kherson, Izyum who believed that Russia is here forever, got their passports but were not able to leave. Are those bad or good ukrainians.
What about russian liberators letting out the sickest vilest Azov nazis and giving back the regions mentioned above back to them. Yes, I believe Russia will take it back but not every average pro-russian ukrainian sees it like me.
At the end I would still prefer to have at least some separation between the state and its people.
Looking forward to the discussion
I agree with Scott and STRONGLY disagree with you, Kevin! It may sound harsh but it IS true.
I went through the terrible years in the Soviet Union in early to mid-70 and FAUGHT with the KGB suppression. Some of my close friends were jailed then. Nobody now probably even remembers the trial "of the pilots" - i.e. a failed attempt of a group of a few men to highjack a plane and fly away that KNEW they've been followed and will be arrested but they proceeded anyway to MAKE A POINT! That was the "beginning of the end" because it brought the attention of the west to the situation there even though it took YEARS until Gorbachev started the internal change.
I have NEVER HEARD of ANY protests in Ukraine - EXCEPT the good people of Donbass! Those who WERE good people, fought WITH them. Others went on demonstrations in support of Bandera murderers!!!
BTW, even in the worst Stalin years before and during WWII there have never been demonstrations in the Soviet Union in SUPPORT of those repressions. Yes, people were afraid, and yes, there were some that loved to report their neighbors to secret service, but they did that secretly - never in the open! Because they knew that they were being despised by everyone! In Ukraine they did and still do that in the open and PROUDLY! That is what Scott was talking about. "People DESERVE the government they CHOOSE" - and Ukrainians supported such gov-ts consistently since the beginning of this century. SHAME ON THEM!
If you talk to the people in Donbass, who have endured the Ukrainian bombarding for all these years, many of them say they feel pity for the Ukrainians. They do not hate them. They think of them as brothers and sisters.
The people of Ukraine need to rise up and do to Zelenskyy what was done to Ngô Đình Diệm, the president of South Vietnam, in 1963.
at the end of the day the people are responsible and pay.
the penalty for standing up to evil is less than the shame.
Dear Kevin, I love reading your articles and I generally agree with you, but in this case I think you might be idealizing western Ukraine - the situation is much more complex, unfortunately, people of western Ukraine are not as passive as they might seem. Of course I am not saying that all Ukrainians are neonazis (there are many people of Ukrainian nationality who do NOT support nazism and fascism), but the fact is that in the western Ukraine there is a severe problem with "grassroot" neonazism, meaning there are admirerers of Bandera and OUN-B among ordinary people, and this has been present long before the 2014 coup d'etat. (Shortly, this is the consequence of collaboration with nazi Germany during the WWII; in Ukraine, German occupation was perceived as liberation from the Soviets; SS-Galizien and other units were made of Ukrainian soldiers from OUN-B; those Ukrainian units were responsible for massacres in Babi Yar and Volhynia; they were even more cruel than German units.) So, in 2014, the ultranationalist government only “opened the gate” and allowed everyone to show their Nazi sympathies openly. See the BBC documentary What Our Fathers Did: A Nazi Legacy (2015), the scene at a Nazi commemoration (at the end of film): https://rumble.com/v16sqr7-what-our-fathers-did-a-nazi-legacy-documentary.html
Another enormous problem which arose after 2014 is Ukrainian "Hitlerjugend": children of ultranationalist/pro-nazi Ukrainians were being sent to summer military camps run by Azov, every year... See photos by Italian documentary photographer Alex Masi (2015): https://www.unicef.de/informieren/aktuelles/photo-of-the-year/contest-2016/honorable-mentions/-/alex-masi/129106
These children are young grownups now and they take active part in propaganda war, eg. presenting lies about situation in Ukraine, they are representatives of NGOs financed by the West... Of course, they have been manipulated and brainwashed, but the fact is - they are very active in this war...
Shortly, the situation is very complex. As Karl Jaspers wrote in The Question of German Guilt (Die Schuldfrage, 1946), there are several types of responsibility.
I need to emphasize that I am not trying to smear citizen of Ukraine - I am just trying to see what the reality is. I am aware that many Ukrainians who do not agree with ultranacionalists keep being silent in order to survive. But we also need to be aware that many Ukrainians who, after the Donbass war began, risked their lives in order to fight neo-nazism. In this documentary, there is a personal story of a man who was tortured by the SBU for sending the Donbass militias warnings about possible air raids (bombing in Donbass): https://rumble.com/v10dng7-tortured-by-sbu-questioned-by-jit.html (I highly recommend all the documentaries on the BonanzaMedia channel, they are made with high professional standards, and present the fact omitted in the mainstream media).
I am fully aware that, watching from the outside, we cannot even vaguely imagine the horrors people of Ukraine must go through... My heart is with all the people who suffer in this war. The main war criminals in my opinion are the Western countries which, by inciting this conflict, made this war and now, by blocking the peace negotiations, prolongue the war - completely unnecessarily. The biggest horror is that they really intend to fight "to the last Ukrainian"...
And also, we must not forget: in the West (EU, US, Canada, etc.), we also need to take our responsibility and somehow stop our governments from exporting violence!
Thank you
Of course there are enough good Ukrainians, but in every 'democratic' country you will be countered by the argument that you democratically voted for your government. So you have to bear the consequences and stop whining about it or oust your government. Like NAZI Germany the Germans are still haunted by their past decisions and repulsive behavior. The good ones have to suffer too.